Day Fifty-Four/Transcript
Session Start (Wackd:#tvtropesdoctorwho): Sun Mar 08 13:09:15 2015 -0400 13:13 So it is down to you and it is down to me 13:13 I can't compete with you physically, and you're no match for my brains. 13:13 <@Wackd> You're that smart? 13:14 Let me put it this way: Have you ever heard of Playdoh? Aristotle? Socrates? 13:15 <@Wackd> Yes. 13:15 Morons 13:16 (And a child's toy) 13:16 <@Wackd> Really. 13:16 <@Wackd> In that case, I challenge you to a battle of wits. 13:16 <@Wackd> (Hi Mukora!) 13:18 For the princess? 13:18 (Hello! I resolved to not be late for once!) 13:18 * @Wackd nods 13:18 To the death? 13:18 * @Wackd nods 13:19 I accept! 13:19 <@Wackd> Good. Then pour the wine. 13:19 * @Wackd sits, pulls out a small vial, uncorks it, and offers it to Vizzini. 13:19 <@Wackd> Inhale this, but do not touch. 13:24 I smell nothing 13:25 <@Wackd> What you do not smell is called Iocane powder. It is odorless, tasteless, dissolves instantly in liquid, and is among the more deadly poisons known to man. 13:55 One of the few things I remember from Dune is that they had different names for poisons slipped into food or drinks or presumably poured into the ear. Its a small thing that really tells you something about the setting. That the setting sucks to live in. 13:55 <@Wackd> I only watched the Lindsey/Spoony RiffTrax of Dune. But it was a long time ago and really late at night so I don't remember it super-well. 13:59 well gom jabbers, fear is a mind killer, spice must flow, sting in a winged speedo. chosen one, evil flying fat guy. That about sums it up 13:59 <@Wackd> ...wait, THAT'S where "fear is the mind killer" comes from? 13:59 <@Wackd> Huh. 14:01 I've heard the movie has basically nothing to do with the books. 14:02 <@Wackd> I've heard the opposite, that they tried to cram too much of the books into one movie. 14:02 <@Wackd> (It's always hilarious to hear instances of this as it's not a thing that would ever happen with a massively popular speculative fiction novel series nowadays.) 14:03 They change some major things like the end and what the weirding way was 14:03 But in terms of fitting the novel into a movie runtime it was fairly faithful 14:04 Hm. Maybe I'm thinking of the sequels, then? Or an entirely different sci-fi series. 14:06 The scifi miniseries was okay from what I remember of it. There was a hilarious part where they tried to stay faithful and also meet broadcast standards. In the second book, creepy Alia is practicing against a fight bot naked and then Paul comes in and conversation. In the miniseries she fights the fight bot clothed and then gets naked for no reason when she wins just in time for Paul to come in 14:06 <@Wackd> Yikes. 14:08 They couldn't have just... removed that part entirely? 14:08 Its just as well they didn't adapt the later books because Herbert added the magical sex woman trope where there was this evil group of kickboxing women who could brainwash men through sex but then a man gains the same power and the kickboxing woman react CALAMITY A MAN CAN DO THE MAGIC SEX BURN THE PLANET 14:08 ^^ You'd think! 14:16 <@Wackd> Well, we are talking about Syfy here. With a few rare exceptions it's never really been a bastion of good taste. 14:25 <@Wackd> Hi unnoun! 14:28 we were just talking about dune and syfy 14:31 Oh god. 14:32 I'm sorry you had to find out this way 14:34 <@Wackd> Hi T! 14:34 And then we have everyone 14:34 Thought I had time to make lunch and still get in a little early. I was wrong. 14:35 I've been reading some of Chicks Unravel Time recently. And. It's like the great essays are usually followed by the insanely problematic essays. 14:36 The second to last one was about the moral imperative to killing Hitler and the Doctor's privilege blindness, as well as the fact that Moffat and Gaiman made cross-sex and cross-race regenerations possible. 14:36 I loved it. 14:37 It was right after Kelly Hale (!) talking about the EDAs and the TV Movie and how they introduced the concept of sexiness to the Doctor with a tangent about him being "above" sex and. Yeah. 14:37 Ew. 14:37 "I can't change history!" "Then you should never leave the TARDIS and just use the space time visualizer." "... No" 14:38 Sexy chasteness? 14:39 I don't want to quote it right now. I managed to skim it a little while I was sitting down to eat, and. No, thanks. 14:39 One of the earliest essays was a biologist talking about David 14:39 Tennant's balls. 14:39 Bum, wasn't it? 14:39 And using some I thought rather sexist terms to describe how "great" Series 2's romance was. 14:40 And some gender-essentialist stuff about what men are like and testosterone and. 14:40 I know there was an essay about getting into fandom through how hot Tennant was, titled "David Tennant's Bum". 14:40 It's amazing how imbalanced a book entirely by female contributors can be. Well. Okay, no, it's not, but. 14:41 There was definitely one about testosterone and testes. 14:41 I read it like, a month ago. 14:41 I've been skimming it and finally finished. Started late last year. 14:42 The fact that one of the Faction Paradox writers and one of the Bio majors are the ones that wrote the essays I found insanely problematic feels almost like a personal affront. 14:43 <@Wackd> Not Kate Orman, I hope. 14:43 I think Kelly Hale and Kate Orman are different names. 14:43 <@Wackd> Ah, missed that. Was a bit distracted by the phrase "above sex". 14:44 I mean, I feel like talking about David Tennant's butt is at least a little justified considering how many things are written about how sexy female characters and actors are. 14:44 "We have evolved above sex" "Do you mean 'beyond'" "No, above. FLYING CITIES" "And, uh, people don't have sex in these cities?" "... Shit" 14:44 ...Right, yeah. Sorry. Mags. L. Halliday also wrote an essay. Hers was pretty good. 14:45 I mean. There was a tangent about the Doctor's sexuality and how he could choose whether or not to engage on that level and the term "asexual" was used and Shelden Cooper was mentioned and my eyes sort of glazed over. 14:46 So. 14:46 That's unfortunate. 14:47 ...I kinda liked one of the things Kelly Hale mentioned about the Doctor suffering beautifully in the TV Movie and a digression about how often the Eighth Doctor got half-naked. 14:47 <@Wackd> Two and a Half Men ended with a piano falling on Chuck Lorre. Sometimes I watch that scene on YouTube and try to pretend it wasn't green-screened. 14:48 that just made me imagine pinhead "Don't cry, Doctor. It is a waste of perfectly good suffering" 14:50 And there was an essay about the theme of women "waiting" in Series 5, and I felt like pointing out that Rory and the Doctor have to wait, and it used Abigail in A Christmas Carol as an example when she's frozen and Kazran is the one who waits more. 14:51 But, and I can't remember the early essays, but the one about Let's Kill Hitler was amazing. Like, it quoted the episode a bit. About how Mels is a radical figure, and how. 14:51 God, I don't want to spoil it. 14:51 Woman in a literal refrigerator and her disease and death is used to emotionally motivate and/or cripple a dude but she lets herself out of the fridge and chooses when to die so... 14:51 I wonder if that was intentional 14:52 The trope is fairly commonly known these days 14:53 "Because if there's any sin more grave than instigating the deaths of eleven million people in camps, it's killing a dude who won't stop wearing a bow tie." 14:53 <@Wackd> There is something problematic about the fact that the Doctor and Kazran basically chose how and when this woman gets to live out the rest of her days. 14:53 It requires a certain blindness - assisted, though not necessitated, by privilege, - to imagine history as a place of adventures where one's biggest concerns are aliens shaped like trash cans." 14:54 The Doctor, aided by his skin and sex, masters this nonchalance. 14:54 And. God I busted my copy back out because wow this one essay. 14:55 <@Wackd> I mean, in the Doctor Who universe, the aliens shaped like trash cans are a more powerful and destructive force than most other powerful and destructive forces. So. 14:55 It's Mels - the black teenager - who thinks to question the Doctor's cavalier attitude towards human disasters. 14:56 It's all a very subversive analysis of the episode and I love the essay to bits. And I could keep quoting it. 14:56 <@Wackd> You could, but maybe we should game? 14:56 <@Wackd> I promise I'll try to find the time to read these later. 14:57 Sorry, but. I mean. 14:58 I just want to say, the whole "Hitler Problem" with time travel always feels really dishonest. because, yeah, things could change. But one of those changes is stopping the systemic genocide of eleven million people, so... worth it. 14:59 If the essay talks about that I'll read it in a heartbeat. 14:59 If lets kill hitler had more time for rewrites, they could have used the same speech as dark water where killing hitler is bad because it removes the impetus to go back in time to kill hitler. Or something. Time travel ethics bluh 15:00 That's not how that works. 15:00 Isn't that what the Doctor said in the volcano thing? 15:00 <@Wackd> If the Holocaust never happened I wouldn't be here. And if I'm being emotionally honest with myself I'd rather not poof from existence, even if it's for the greater good. I know that's selfish. 15:00 I don't think that's how that works either. 15:01 Also, it was Kill The Moon, I think. 15:01 Also sorry. 15:05 Kill the Moon mentioned Hitler, Dark Water mentioned changing things. 15:05 But. See, we don't have time travel, so it works how we say it works. 15:06 Amelia Pond both never had parents and always had parents. 15:06 History is a mess. Life is a mess. Cheer up, have an ice cream, and kill Hitler. 15:07 Time is being rewritten all around us, every day. 15:08 <@Wackd> I'm gonna be honest, the idea that my fraternal grandparents, who lived in completely different countries, somehow meet, are pretty much the exact same people they were, manage to produce my dad, who grows up in the exact same way and eventually meets and marries my mother and puts me right here...that's pretty much the only way I'd accept it, and it seems absurdly implausable. 15:08 <@Wackd> To say nothing of how the lack of a major world war might influence my maternal great-grandparents. 15:08 Now you're starting to get it. 15:09 <@Wackd> I don't think I am. 15:10 I don't know how you can trust things that aren't absurdly implausible. 15:10 Also, still quoting Good Night. 15:11 <@Wackd> K. 15:11 <@Wackd> So. 15:11 <@Wackd> If it's alright with everyone I'm gonna start the game. 15:11 k 15:12 sorry 15:12 <@Wackd> It's fine. 15:12 <@Wackd> The Doctor extended a hand to the cloud of nanogenes, also reaching out his mind to any interface they presented. "Also I have no idea what our plan actually was," Ellie said. "Making it up as we go, like usual..." said the Doctor. 15:14 "Okay, I've cleared the Dalek template, but I need a human template to replace it. ...Brom? You're the only unaugmented human here that I can ask." 15:15 "Uh... what do you need me to do?" 15:16 "Just let the glowing stuff fly around you for a moment while it learns about you. Much less invasive than the leeches." 15:19 "All... right." Brom stood still and waited for the glowing stuff. 15:20 The Doctor held out his hand toward Brom, guiding the glowing cloud toward xyr. 15:25 "Glowy gold stuff sure does factor into what we do a lot," Zinnia said, perversly tempted into ruining what was an amazing spectacle. If this were on television, some bombastic music would have faded, embarassed to be in the same room as her. 15:35 <@Wackd> (unnoun!) 15:35 "This kinda tickles." 15:42 (Mukora?) 15:43 Brom braced xyrself for... whatever was going to happen. 15:44 The cloud of glow left the Doctor's hand and enveloped Brom. 15:44 (I was kind of picturing that having already happened, but I guess nobody else did.) 15:47 (I mean, I didn't, but Brom could still have been waiting for the glowing stuff to do something.) 15:49 (Well, it has now.) 15:53 Brom watched the golden lights dance around xyr and wondered why people thought magic was so bad if it was this pretty. 15:56 After a moment, the nanogenes returned to the Doctor, a appearing to rest just above his hands. "Zinnia, if you could distribute these around the people here, I'll take some to treat Sir Guest. 15:57 Zinnia nodded and started to treat the people in the dungeon 15:57 (this dungeon is a stair flight below Sir Guest's chamber, right?) 15:58 <@Wackd> (Indeed.) 15:58 The Doctor took a smaller portion of cloud upstairs. 16:02 <@Wackd> The wolf and amphibious creatures seem memorized by the presence of the cloud, and watched it eagerly, though they knew not what it did or much of anything at all. Perhaps they saw something divine in it. Perhaps they knew, subconsciously, that it would save them. Perhaps their new eyes were drawn to bright shiny things. Who could say? 16:08 <@Wackd> (unnoun!) 16:08 Ellie swayed a little "Whoa, okay, feeling a little dizzy now. I'm gonna get those back, right?" 16:11 "I think I need them to live, what with the metal eyestalk in my skull and all." 16:14 "And the slightly hybridized DNA and organs, and the part where they've merged with and replaced and become part of my body's systems." 16:14 "Guys?" 16:15 <@Wackd> (Bocaj? Mukora? TParadox?) 16:15 "I'm pretty sure you're going to get the glitter back. The Doctor would have said otherwise, right?" 16:16 Zinnia had applied the cloud to all of the mutated people by this point. 16:16 The Doctor arrived upstairs. "Sir Guest? It's time for you to rejoin the light." He readied the nanogenes. 16:18 "I don't want you to die. Is there any way I can... give you back the magic stuff I took?" 16:19 <@Wackd> Slowly, the two of them began to shift and shake, their bones crunching and contorting, their organs rearranging. The nanogenes did their best to mitigate the pain, but the two ultimately looked more than a little shaken upon resuming human form. The previously amphibious person under the net was the first to speak. "Where...where am I?" 16:19 "You're in the dungeon of a castle." 16:20 "Oh and uh I am a perfectly ordinary thing that I am. Don't be afraid or violent, please." 16:20 <@Wackd> The process was similarly painful for Sir Guest, who once human collapsed on the floor, letting out one more primal shriek before passing out. 16:23 <@Wackd> The previously amphibious person, who for the sake of convenience will here have their name divulged as Sir Essex, began to attempt to pull themselves up under the net but collapsed quickly. The wolf woman, Sir Siodmak, was fast asleep on the wall and drooling on herself. 16:29 The Doctor mentally directed the nanogenes to return home as he went to Sir Guest's side. 16:29 (Did I miss anything?) 16:29 With the two sirs returned to their human form, Zinnia attempts to recollect the nanogenes and return it to Ellie. 16:35 <@Wackd> (Well I have no idea when you logged out, so.) 16:46 (That's kind of an issue, yeah.) 16:47 <@Wackd> (I think we got it sorted in private chat.) 16:47 <@Wackd> (Also, TParadox asked (Is there a very low percentage of cisgender persons in this fiefdom, or should some of these Sirs be Dames?) and it didn't get sent. I basically decided that all the knights regardless of gender are using Sir. 16:51 (I think that's generally how it works when fictional works have female knights. I think most people assume "dame" refers to a noble lady in the more feminine sense.) 16:53 <@Wackd> (It's a move I could totally see Who pulling, really.) 16:53 <@Wackd> (Anyway! Back to the story.) 16:58 <@Wackd> (Mukora!) 16:59 (Is Zinnia in the same room as Brom?) 17:01 (Unless brom left the dungeon) 17:01 (I'm pretty sure Zinnia, Brom, and Ellie are all still in the same room. The Doctor went upstairs.) 17:02 "Wait. If the gold stuff changed them from animal people to people people... how come it didn't change you, miss Zinnia?" 17:02 (Good question, actually. But I think she's too far from human for them to work with.) 17:03 <@Wackd> (I assumed it was a direct application thing. Or that maybe Ellie and/or the Doctor had control over who they effected and how.) 17:04 "I'm a people people. I'm a Zinnia people and this is how I was born and this is how I should look" 17:04 (It is a thing I didn't think about when I planned this.) 17:04 (I mean, they didn't all turn into Brom.) 17:05 (Considering that the nanogenes were used on the leeches, I assume they were coded to change things only affected by the leeches, which zinnia is not) 17:05 <@Wackd> (I was considering that, actually, but then I was like "well the plot would kinda hit a brick wall" so.) 17:05 (I mean, I'm assuming the nanogenes seperate the animal genes from the human genes and that Zinnia, being an alien, has neither of them. Or something else suitably Doctor Who-y) 17:07 (I had them scan Brom to get an idea of what human DNA looks like, then go correct that in the others. I just figure Zinnia doesn't register as a problem to them.) 17:07 (Let's just assume that a Dalek Wizard did it.) 17:08 (Or the Doctor. Time Wizard.) 17:08 "Oh. So... you're like the people from the north?" 17:09 "Do you have bird people in the north?" 17:10 "Maybe. I've never been, but my mother always said they were different. But not in a bad way!" 17:11 (White Walkers?) 17:12 (And Wilders!) 17:14 "Odd, I never read that the alconists ever were on earth during this time period. Or... wait, did your mother say how they were different?" 17:15 "Well, she said they were very 'grim." 17:19 "Ah. Thats fairly vague... Do I come off as grim?" 17:23 "I'm not sure. I don't really know what a "grim" looks like." 17:31 "Aheh, I think grim is a mood and not... like a scary dog or anything." 17:33 "Really? Well... what kind of mood is it?" 17:36 <@Wackd> (TParadox!) 17:37 "Dark, melancholic... this isn't helping is it?" 17:38 Ellie had already wandered off upstairs. The nanogenes had used a lot of energy and needed to recharge off her metabolism. And she still hadn't gotten that bacon. 17:38 "...Sir Guest?" The Doctor tried to... assist, in some manner. 17:39 (I hope Ellie hadn't wandered off upstairs before Zinnia returned the nanogenes) 17:39 <@Wackd> There was nothing much to assist with. The transformation had fixed him, but it had also sapped quite a lot of energy, and he was now sound asleep. 17:46 <@Wackd> (unnoun!) 17:48 "So, like... night time? You don't seem very night time-y to me." 17:50 (So did any of the healed people have pig DNA?) 17:51 <@Wackd> (There were just the three.) 17:52 (What about the leeches?) 17:53 "Ellie? Did your nanogenes get back to you all right?" 17:53 <@Wackd> (I...guess one of them has a pig in it. Sure.) 17:54 <@Wackd> (Is the Doctor calling that downstairs or has he come back to the dungeon?) 17:55 (Ellie was on her way up.) 17:55 <@Wackd> (Oh, right.) 17:57 "Yeah, they got back all right. Hey, you don't happen to know if there's any bacon or sausage or something around, would you?" 18:00 (I can't remember if the Doctor knows where the kitchen is.) 18:01 <@Wackd> (He does not.) 18:01 "There should be a kitchen somewhere." 18:11 <@Wackd> (unnoun!) 18:14 (Speaking of kitchen I must feed.) 18:14 (Galactus hungers) 18:14 <@Wackd> (I should probably do likewise.) 18:18 (Oh wow. It is like 6 o'clock. I didn't realize because I had gotten so used to it being dark by now.) 18:19 <@Wackd> (Oo, yes. This is a pleasant surprise.) 18:20 (Yes, we've traded dark evenings for dark mornings. This is so much of an improvement over not adjusting our clocks and writing millions of dollars of computer code to compensate for irrational behaviors.) 18:20 (Listen. Blame the farmers. Blame Brom.) 18:20 (FARMERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRS) 18:21 (I'm not clear on why the "farmers like it" argument works. Plants don't care what time it is.) 18:21 <@Wackd> (BOCAJ. Vs. FARMERS.) 18:21 (The biggest argument in favor is the idea that light in the evening means people stay out buying things longer.) 18:22 (I assume it has to do less with plants, and more with farm animals? I dunno. I just always heard farmers getting blamed for it.) 18:49 (back) 19:03 <@Wackd> (I too have returned.) 19:22 <@Wackd> (...hello?) 19:23 (I am here) 19:23 (Ayo) 19:26 <@Wackd> (unnoun? Mukora?) 19:28 (I am here.) 19:32 <@Wackd> (unnoun?) 19:38 (Sorry.) 19:40 <@Wackd> (So are we continuing?) 19:46 (I'm developing a bit of a headache.) 19:47 (We're nearly done I think) 19:47 <@Wackd> (True. We're rapidly approaching the end of this story.) 19:50 <@Wackd> (So. Do we finish or do we call it?) 19:52 (My capacity for complex thought is shot right now, and I feel like I need to be the one to do the next few things.) 19:53 <@Wackd> (Fair.) 20:02 <@Wackd> (So...guess that's goodnight.) 20:07 (Sorry. Goodnight.) 20:07 <@Wackd> (Night!) 20:13 Night! 20:13 <@Wackd> Night! Session Close (#tvtropesdoctorwho): Sun Mar 08 20:17:21 2015 -0400